ORAL HISTORY PROJECT OF THE MARIN COUNTY FREE LIBRARY Anne T. Kent California Room Original recording available at the Anne T. Kent California Room © All materials copyright Marin County Free Library. Transcript made available for research purposes only. All rights are reserved to the Marin County Free Library. Requests for permission to quote for publication should be addressed to the: Anne T. Kent California Room Marin County Free Library 3501 Civic Center Dr. #427 San Rafael, California, 94903

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INTERVIEW WITH MANUEL T. FREITAS, JR., JUDGE CARLOS FREITAS, LOUIS FREITAS, AND WALTER FREITAS
by Carla Ehat & Anne Kent
February 6, 1976

INTERVIEWEE: Manuel T. Freitas, Jr. (MF), Judge Carlos Freitas (CF), Louis Freitas (LF), Walter Freitas (WF)
INTERVIEWERS: Carla Ehat (CE), Anne Kent (AK) and Jackie Mollenkoff (JM)
DATE OF INTERVIEW: February 6, 1976
TRANSCRIBER: Marjorie Hoffman



CE: Today is Friday, February 6, 1976. Continuing the Oral History program of the California Room, Marin County Library at Civic Center, this is Carla Ehat of the Moya Library Guild. We are recording today from the offices of retired Superior Court Judge Carlos R. Freitas at 960 Fifth Avenue in San Rafael, California. Judge Carlos Freitas and three of his brothers, Manuel T. Freitas Jr., Walter F. Freitas, and Louis G. Freitas are here today to share their reminiscences of their remarkable father, Marin pioneer, rancher, banker and landowner Manuel T. Freitas Sr. Good morning gentlemen.

All: Good morning Carla.

CE: Before we begin the narrative of your family, would each of you gentlemen give us a brief biographical profile of yourself? Let us begin with you, Manuel.

MF: Well I was born --

CE: Where?

MF: At the home ranch.

CE: Yes?

MF: In San Rafael, May 27, 1900.

CE: Very good.

MF: I attended St. Raphael's grammar school.

CE: Yes.

MF: And St. Mary's College in Oakland, California.

CE: What career have you pursued?

MF: I pursued dairy farming for 34 years and bagging for 27 years.

CE: Tell me, have you a family, Manuel?

MF: I have no family; I have no children.

CE: Have you ever married?

MF: I was married for 40 years to Carolyn Boylou, married in 1934. Carolyn passed away in 1974.

CE: I see. Where are you living at present, Manuel?

MF: I'm living in San Rafael at 160 Sea View Avenue.

CE: 160 Sea View Avenue. What occupies you? What are your interests since you retirement, sir?

MF: Well, I was President of Consolidated Milk Producers of San Francisco for 27 years. A hobby, I guess, is hunting. I retired in 1954.

CE: 1954. Well thank you Manuel. Carlos, give us a brief profile of yourself. Where were you born?

CF: I was born on the Freitas Home Ranch, now Terra Linda.

CE: What year sir?

CF: 1904, February 7.

CE: Tomorrow.

CF: Tomorrow.

CE: And did you have some of your schooling at St. Raphael's?

CF: I went to St. Raphael's parochial grammar school in San Rafael, just one block from here, and from there to Sacred Heart College High School in San Francisco for one year and from there to St. Mary's College High School and St. Mary's College for an additional four years. I was -- From there I went to the Law School at Catholic University of America in Washington D.C. and I was graduated in Law from Lincoln University in San Francisco in 1925; was admitted to the State Bar of California, same time. That happens to be over 50 years ago. And while yet in Law School I married Earlda Wayburn Cooley of San Anselmo and we married on December 22, 1923. We are still married. We have never had any family. That is, we have never had any children or grandchildren.

CE: How long were you a Judge on the Superior Court?

CF: Just 2 years.

CE: Two years?

CF: And I am -- I returned then to my law firm of Freitas, which is now Freitas, Allen, McCarthy, Bettini, and McMann. And “we the people” as it were. My brother Walter was a partner for quite a few years; he can tell you how many. He will tell you when and why he retired.

CE: Is history one of your main interests, Carlos?

CF: Well, as I grow old it has become, yes.

CE: Are you in the office most every day?

CF: Every day, including Saturdays and Sundays for a couple of hours.

CE: Well that's admirable. Now let's move over to Louis. Tell us your story.

LF: I was also born on the home ranch on June 21, 1910. As did my brothers, I attended St. Raphael's grammar school. Upon the death of my mother, I then went to, with my brothers Walter and Ed, to the, to what was then the Mount Tamalpais Military Academy. From there I went to St. Joseph's Academy over in Berkeley, to St. Mary's High School, and I attended the University of Notre Dame, St. Mary's College and the University of San Francisco. Most of my life I have been connected in one way or another with the dairy business. I also taught CYO basketball or coached CYO basketball for 20 years here at St. Raphael's.

CF: Without pay.

LF: And the last few years in the dairy business were spent in partnership with my brother Walt and then alone for several years and I finished up the dairy business in 1962. I was a life-long bachelor, that is until I was 60 years of age, and then I married Dorothy Drainith from Wisconsin and Minnesota; born in Wisconsin but spent most of her life in Minnesota. We now live in Borego Springs, but I also come up to San Rafael about once a month to attend to the various duties connected with the Freitas Foundation.

CE: Thank you Louis. Now let's turn to Walter.

WF: Well I was born not out at the ranch but downtown in the city of San Rafael because the old horse and buggy days, the family used to come into town in the wintertime and I was born October 14, 1911. I attended St. Raphael Grammar School and Mount Tamalpais Military Academy and along with Louis, St. Joseph's Academy and St. Mary's College High School and the University of Santa Clara and Hasting College of the Law from which I graduated in 1938 and immediately began practicing law here in San Rafael with my brother Carlos. And I continued that until 1963 which was 25 years to the day, and then I withdrew and became semi retired and became a little bit more active in the agricultural field, both in dairying and buying and improving and selling duck clubs. I was married June 25, 1932 to Marno Prince, a San Rafael girl, and we had five children, two of whom have since died but there are yet living three of them. One of them is my son David who is a practicing attorney in this same law firm now and partner along with Carlos in the firm were I was.

CE: David, I believe, is on the Board of the Marin County Historical Society, so in a way he’s following the family tradition of involvement in the history of the community.

WF: Yes.

CE: Would you tell us Walter, before we move on to the story of your father, the other members of your family?

WF: Yes, the oldest in our family was my sister Marie Freitas Crane, who was born, I think, around 1898.

CE: Yes.

WF: And she died at the age of 59, I believe. And also there was another brother, Ed, who fitted in the line of succession between my brother Carlos and my brother Louis. Ed was born probably in, about 1907, I believe, and he was married to Frances Tassey from Petaluma and they had three girls, the issue of that marriage. And Ed died on, I believe it was September 6, 1941.

CE: Now, were there any other girls in the family? Are there any other girls?

WF: Yes, there are two sisters that are not here with us today and the oldest in the family is Rose Freitas Rose. She was married to Joseph Rose and they had a son and a daughter, both of whom are yet living, although Joe Rose died as a result of an injury he suffered on the dairy ranch. He died, I think, about May 11, 1942. And then the other girl, Helen Freitas Tichenor, who is just a little older than Carl and younger than Manuel, she resides here in Marin County now; she was married to Sheldon Bailey Wright for many years and they had two sons, each of whom is still living, one of whom is living in the county here now and the other is back east in Illinois, I believe. And Mr. Wright died quite a few years ago and then Helen subsequently married Stephen Tichenor and she lives here in San Rafael with him.

CE: But she was unable to come today?

WF: Yes she is recovering from surgery.

CE: Well tell me Walter, do I have this correctly? There were eight children in the family?

WF: Actually there were nine. There was another child but he died at about four months, so eight really have been raised.

CE: Eight, very good. Thank you Walter. Now let us turn to the patriarch of the family and learn the fascinating story of Manuel T. Freitas Sr. I understand, Walter, that your father was born in 1853 on an island in the Portuguese Azores. Could you tell us the story? Do you know the name of that island?

WF: The name of the island is, in English we would say St. George but of course in Portuguese it is Sao Jorge.

CE: And how is that pronounced?

WF: Sao Jorge.

CE: Thank you. Now what brought him to America when he was a young lad? How old?

WF: Well I'm told that he came here to California from the Azores when he was approximately seventeen years of age and went to work in San Francisco, as I understand it, washing dishes in the small restaurants there.

CE: Did he ever discuss with his children, you children, how he got over here or his voyage. Was that ever --

WF: Well I was only eleven when he died, so I am too young to remember; perhaps some of the older ones.

CE: Anyone else remember?

CF: I remember him stating that he came in steerage on a Portuguese Schooner and that he owed three hundred dollars for his passage money to someone back there in the Azores when he arrived here. When he passed through the arms of the Statue of Liberty, that he then came directly to San Francisco. He had his total education in the Azores Islands, consisting of three years in grammar school. He had great difficulty in writing Portuguese and of course, he wrote, spoke, no English. He, as Walter has indicated, he went to work as a dishwasher in a Portuguese restaurant on Front Street in San Francisco, very close to the Embarcadero.

CE: This was about 1869, I understand.

CF: This was either 69 or 70. He continued as a dishwasher then became a cook, the chef, then he owned the restaurant, then he owned the hotel later. And from there on I'll allow my brothers to take up.

CE: Louis do you want to add to that?

LF: Yes, I think that the reason he came to San Francisco was that a friend of his had a job in this restaurant, and my father had this job as dishwasher awaiting him. Most Portuguese, of course, used to stay in Massachusetts and the fishing industry.

CE: Well it's interesting, other Portuguese families we've interviewed in Marin, we often ask them, "What brought you to Marin?" or "Why Marin?" and they have said, "Well it looks so much like our native country in Portugal." Of course the Azores is a different thing. Well tell me gentlemen, after some years he finally became a commission merchant, do you know how this came about? What is a commission merchant? Walter, do you know?

WF: I don't know how he became one but I believe as a commission merchant he was engaged mostly as a middle-man buying agricultural produce from the farmer and selling it to the urbanized customers in San Francisco. And in turn buying things at the farm from parties in San Francisco so that he, speaking both Portuguese and English, could determine the needs of the Portuguese dairymen in Marin County. With his acquiring knowledge of English he was able to buy and do business with people in San Francisco who spoke English and thus serve the Portuguese community in Marin County.

CE: I see. Tell us a little bit, if you would, about his early involvement in the Portuguese American Bank. Do you know how this came about? Carlos, would you tell us?

CF: He became very well acquainted with the dairymen from Marin County. When they came to San Francisco they would be required to stay overnight; it then was a long trip. And we did not have the ferries or the Golden Gate Bridge or any such method of transportation. We had very slow boats and there was the horse and buggy to get to Sausalito. Consequently they would always stay overnight at his hotel on Front Street near the Embarcadero. And through this relationship and through his experience in financial affairs, he had always, even from his youth, been very much interested in finances. And then he, with proper advice from legal council, established this Portuguese American Bank at Front and Clay Streets in San Francisco. In the bank was the, also on the second floor, were the offices of the Portuguese Consul in San Francisco. He in turn had been a vice-council in Portugal and this gave him an acquaintance with Portuguese throughout Northern California and was a nucleus for the customers for the Portuguese American Bank

CE: When did your father come to Marin and start acquiring his property, Louis?

LF: I believe it was around 1896.

CE: 1896. Was that the same year he married Maria Bettencourt?

LF: Yes.

CE: Who'd like to tell us about that? Manuel? Carlos? Who was Maria Bettencourt, your mother?

CF: Well, by default I will tell you. She was also born in the Island of San Jorge. And her father was a captain of a fishing fleet, as it were. I think it might have been two or three ships but they called him captain in any event. And he unfortunately went down with the ship on one of their trips off the Newfoundland coast. When they were over there fishing off the Newfoundland coast for tuna. And then at the age of three her mother brought her to the east coast of the United States, I believe Providence, Rhode Island or there about. And from there, I believe she was there for about two years, and then her mother had re-married, a man by the name of Sylvester; later his name became Smith when he arrived in California. And this was a frequent occurrence among Portuguese, changing names, because two men with the same name might be getting their mail mixed up. So one would change names so his mail wouldn't get mixed up with the other and his identity would be established. In any event, she and, that is my mother and her mother and her stepfather, ended up at the Rancho Corte Madera del Presidio, in what is now Corte Madera in Marin County. And I believe my mother was at the age of five or six at that time. And then she was placed as a boarding student at the Dominican Convent in San Rafael and she learned, of course, all her English there and she graduated from the high school in 1916, or rather at the age of 16, at which time she married my father. He was then 43 years of age.

CE: That was an extraordinary thing. How did they meet? Did they ever tell you?

CF: Well he used to come on trips to Marin County and I guess he probably stayed at this ranch in Corte Madera. He probably met her there and I guess there was a fascination on both sides and they became married.

CE: How would you describe your mother, Carlos?

CF: Well I would be happy to describe her but I'm talking a little too much.

CE: Louis?

LF: Well I don't remember. I remember my mother very well but I don't remember too many things about her because she was ill the last few years of her life and I was only eight when she died. However, I remember her as a very beautiful woman, very kind woman, the only complaint I ever heard my father make about my mother was that she tried to give his money away faster than he could make it, give it away to help the poor who used to come to the ranch or to our house in town with their needs. This statement of my father's, of course, was not entirely accurate.

CE: Would you care to comment, Walter or Manuel, about your mother?

MF: I guess we were all quite young when she passed away. And all of us went to boarding school, so we didn't spend any time at home. I remember my mother as being very quiet, very kind to all the children, sort of a homebody, a mother and housewife.

WF: I don't think it's been said yet, Mother died in March 20, 1919 as a result of cancer and she had been bedridden for about the last year as I recall. I was only seven when she died which means I was only six when she stopped taking care of us really, so I don't -- I'm not too specific in my recollection about her.

CE: Well thank you, Walter.

CF: I would like to add something about our mother. She was very much interested in teaching my father how to read, write and speak English. She was a very good teacher and he became quite adept at all three. And also at the time of her death she left my father with eight children. There was always at least two in help in the house and this I think was a time when all of us were placed in boarding schools because father was not in the position to take care of eight children. Now another thing about my mother is that she was active in the ladies’ Portuguese lodges. There is a Portuguese lodge in Novato, which is named the Maria T. Freitas Lodge. It's a local council of the SPRSI Lodge. Those are the initials for a long Portuguese name that we don't have time for, but her name is there as the founder of that lodge.

CE: And no doubt a driving force. Well now, let us get to the home ranch. Was this the first ranch acquired by your father, gentlemen?

MF: Yes it was.

CE: Would you describe it? How large was this ranch? Manuel?

MF: It was approximately 1186 acres.

CE: Primarily what kind of ranch was it?

MF: It was a horse ranch for the Lucas Family. My dad purchased it, I believe in the year 1896, but did not operate it, leased it out.

CE: And I think it would be interesting for someone, perhaps Walter, to interject here. This Lucas property had been at one time an original land grant given to Timoteo Murphy, I believe.

WF: Yes. Santa Margarita, Las Gallinas and San Pedro.

CE: Right. So your father then was the third owner of this property?

WF: Murphy, Lucas and then Freitas.

CE: Yes. All right, was the ranch self-sustaining? Walter?

WF: Well, I believe so. Of course my recollection of it, it was primarily a dairy ranch. I don't remember it as a horse ranch. I guess my father gradually converted it into a dairy ranch where he milked 250 head of dairy cattle and sold the milk into San Francisco. And there was a great deal of produce raised on the place too because of the transportation problems and there were a lot of people on the ranch who would work the ranch; there were a lot of people in the big home.

CE: Would you describe the house? I understand your father did a great deal of entertaining there too. You had guests all the time, quite often?

WF: Yes, the house consisted of three floors.

CE: Is this a photograph we have on the wall here?

WF: Yes, that shows the ranch house. It was surrounded by substantial formal gardens and my father's orchard.

CE: Orchard?

WF: Yes there was a family orchard there and this took quite a little colony of people to operate it. And much of the food required by this group was raised right there on the ranch in the orchard and the vegetable gardens around there. Also there were chickens and pigeons and calves and everything. Meat was largely provided right there on the ranch as well as the vegetables.

CE: Would you like to add anything, Louis?

LF: No, I was a wonderful place in which to live. It was a beautiful ranch, and a lot of trees and meadows.

CE: Where did the main drive come from to the house? Did it lead from the Petaluma Road?

LF: Yes, from the Petaluma Road. We had a lane of about three quarters of a mile, a tree lined lane. It was a great place to hunt; I think that's where most of the boys got their love for hunting, whether it was rabbits or deer or so forth.

CE: Well did you boys go hunting a good deal, and fishing?

MF: Yes we did.

CE: What would you catch around there?

MF: There were lots of quail on the ranch, and deer, and rabbits.

CE: Any fishing or would there be any streams to merit any fishing?

MF: No streams.

CE: Tell me, as young men, did you have any chores as such to fulfill?

MF: We certainly did.

CE: Oh you did! What sort of the chores you had to do?

MF: Well we had a wood stove for one thing and we --

CE: Pardon me?

MF: We had a wood stove in the house.

CE: Wood stove that --

WF: Cooking.

CE: Cooking, so you had to have wood available.

MF: For fireplaces I believe, you had to keep those well stacked with wood, firewood and kindling. Then we did all the cleaning of the paths, cleaning of the head crops, pulling mustard.

CE: What other chores were there?

WF: I think it's fair to say that we did more work than play at the ranch.

CE: Well if you ever did get any leisure, where would you head for?

MF: San Rafael, I guess.

CE: San Rafael. What would you do in San Rafael?

MF: Go to the nickelodeon shows, I guess.

WF: The old Lyric Theater wasn't it?

MF: Lyric Theater, yes.

LF: And the Fox.

CE: And the Fox. How would you get there, by horse and buggy or walk?

MF: Horse or walk, Twenty-three and a half miles to town.

CE: Of course the train was going then, did you cut through the tunnel? Ever do that?

MF: No, never did.

CF: Yes, I did.

CE: You did, Carlos?

CF: Yes many times.

CE: I understand there were some baths then on the canal, is that --

CF: I can tell you about the baths. I practically lived there.

CE: You did?

CF: That where I learned how to swim. Well we all really learned how to swim in the creek at the home ranch which is now the creek in Terra Linda, which has been straightened out, but in those days it was meandered and had potholes, as it were. We would learn how to swim in those potholes. I remember coming to town here on horseback and bringing my lunch with me and going to the San Rafael Municipal Baths and swimming there all day long then riding horseback home, and that was a full day. But I got those days off on very few occasions and we earned our spending money by working. We did not have any allowance; we had to work for our spending money.

CE: Earn it. Well tell me, during those early formative years, was your father commuting to San Francisco in pursuit if his commission business and his banking interest?

MF: Yes he was.

CE: How would he get to the city, Manuel?

MF: By then they had the electrical trains, Northwestern Pacific, and ferry boats. Northwestern Pacific and ferry boats go to Casadero

CE: Where would he go, down to San Quentin Point or Sausalito?

MF: He would take the train to Fourth and Tamalpais, where the station is now, the Whistlestop, and to Sausalito then a ferry boat from Sausalito to San Francisco.

CE: Well I understand, gentlemen, as you were growing up and the winters were messy that it was decided to have a house in town so you could go to school at St. Raphael's. Where was the home located?

CF: And so the girls could go to school at the Dominican Convent.

CE: I see.

CF: The home was located two doors from east of where we are sitting now. When we originally came there it was 334 Fifth Avenue but later on it became 852 Fifth when they changed the numbering, and originally it was Fifth Street; now it's Fifth Avenue. The home was a very large three-story house. That is a picture of it on the wall. It had to accommodate five boys and three girls and a father and a mother and two in help. Behind the home there was a small home where the chauffeur lived; neither my father nor my mother ever drove an automobile.

CE: He never did?

CF: No, neither one, but we always had a chauffeur until Manuel was old enough to drive and I think he became the chauffeur and I came along and became the chauffeur but that's the way it went.

CE: Well one reason you had the home: there was no decent roads to get from the ranch to San Rafael in those early days, I presume either.

CF: Well it was muddy. Of course Puerto Suello Hill was twice as high as it is now. The present Puerto Suello Hill is a result of a tremendous cut in that hill. You can still see where the hill used to be and --

WF: It was all dirt road too, remember Carl?

CF: Dirt and mud in wintertime. When you came in by horse and buggy it would take too long to get the kids to school

CE: Too much of a hassle.

CF: And too long to take my father to the train.

CE: Well how many months of the year would you stay in the town house? Half a year maybe?

WF: Yes, I would say about six. I was born in October and that was in San Rafael so we were always there by October. I think it was mostly the matter of the school term. After the road got hard, in late spring perhaps before the end of the spring semester, we would go back to the ranch. But basically we were in town during the school term.

CE: One question I meant to ask earlier: did all of you boys learn to speak Portuguese in the home? Did you speak --

WF: Yes, everybody for the most part spoke Portuguese in the home. We had Portuguese servants. My father and mother spoke Portuguese; we spoke Portuguese at the family table and so forth.

LF: I think we spoke Portuguese before we spoke English.

WF: When we went to school we were made fun of because we couldn't speak English. I remember that.

CE: But it's so wonderful to hang on to your ethnic heritage and speak the language of your family and they're certainly doing that today more and more.

CF: I would like to throw in another thing about our townhouse here.

CE: Yes, certainly.

CF: It was purchased from a man named T.J. Crowley, who was a distinguish lawyer practicing in San Francisco. When my father bought it he bought it from Mr. Crowlay. I still have some of his law books, Mr. Crowley's.

CE: What happened to the home? Was it razed?

CF: Yes, we sold it. Well if you want a little history on that it was --

CE: Well not too much detail on that we have so much to cover, Carlos.

WF: It's razed and it's now owned by the City of San Rafael and used for the purpose of a parking lot.

CE: Oh, dear.

CF: At the head of Lootens Place, Lootens and Fifth.

CE: Well now let's cover just briefly, when you were youngsters going to school here who were some of your schoolmates? People who still live in the area? Do you recall any of the names of your chums or your schoolmates?

MF: I recall the names of several of them: Harry Wall who lives in Rafael Gardens; Jim Walll, his brother who lives in San Rafael. They're both married and the wives are still living with them.

CE: Well I was just thinking to tie in with some of your contemporaries that might be of interest to people in the future. Do you recall any, Louis?

LF: Yes, the Healy sisters. I think one is now a Dominican Sister and the other one is married to Jim Hayes. The there was Alex Wilkins and the West family, Jimmy West were old timers. Of course the Herzog family who lived just two or three houses away from us.

MF: Right on this property.

LF: Right on this present property, where we are, yes.

WF: One of my closest buddies up at the Military Academy was Robert Dollar who just passed away less than a year ago.

CE: This is Walter speaking.

WF: And Harold Reed, too, was at the Military Academy. We used to blow bugles together.

CE: Very good. Now Fourth Street wasn't too changed from what it is today. I mean, you aren't that old.

CF: Oh yes it was, I'm old enough.

CE: Are you old enough to remember when it was a dirt road?

CF: I'm old enough to remember Forth Street as a dirt street with wooden planks on the sidewalks.

CE: Were there really as many saloons on Fourth Street as they tell?

CF: There was more than they tell.

CE: One on each corner, maybe?

CF: No sometimes three on a corner.

CE: Well why so many saloons, Carlos?

CF: Well there was nothing much else to do in town.

CE: Did people drink at home?

CF: No, and it was cheap to drink there and ladies did not go there then. Side B

CE: Tell me, gentlemen, was there a Chinatown in existence in San Rafael during those early days? Walter?

WF: I don't think it warrants the title Chinatown, but there was a little area there on C Street in San Rafael. I remember the old Star Grocery and then behind that was the famous gambling den and that continued long after it was illegal. That's about all I remember about the so-called Chinatown, just a block or so long on C Street.

CE: Do you have any remembrances of it, Manuel?

MF: Yes, I remember that section very well and then down on Second St. between Hayes in the vicinity of Zappetini's Machine Shop. There were two or three Chinese laundries and a little wholesale produce firm operated by the Chinese.

CE: Well now, during this period that Carl was talking about the dirt roads on Fourth Street, this was prior to any automobiles, or was the automobile just making its appearance on the scene?

CF: The automobile had made its appearance; we had our first automobile in 1908. No. Manuel’s shaking his head.

CE: Well 1910? What would that have been?

MF: Buick.

CE: Buick?

CF: A fire engine red Buick.

CE: Who got to drive it, you Carlos? Manuel?

CF: No we were too young.

CE: Well gentlemen, let's move along. In 1919 I read that your mother died, is that correct, that year?

All: Yes.

CE: And I understand that your father immediately retired to take care and be at home for the youngest children. Would that be you, Louis, Walter and at that time Edward?

LF: Yes.

CE: What are your remembrances of that period, Carlos?

CF: He didn't --

CE: Well he stopped commuting, didn't he? No. He did stay? He did continue his work?

CF: Yes as far as I know he did continue his work until shortly before his death.

CE: Before his death. And what year did your father die?

LF: 1923, four years after my mother.

CE: Four years after your mother. So he was then about seventy?

LF: When he died he was 70.

CE: When he died, Louis? What changes occurred in your life then? Were there dramatic changes or did you continue? By then some of you were how old? Let's see, Carlos you were in school in college.

CF: I was in law school.

CE: In Law School.

CF: It changed my life in that I discontinued as a law student in the east and married and went to work in a law office in the daytime and went to night law school at Lincoln University.

CE: Well didn't it become necessary, Manuel and Carlos, and well all of you, that somebody take over the management of all this land and the property?

MF: When my dad passed away I was already operating the whole dairy of the Freitas ranch.

CE: I see.

MF: The dairy which is now Terra Linda.

CE: Well I understand, someone has said, that your father bought a ranch every time a son was born. So there must have been other ranches.

MF: Well that's not so.

CE: Well you know how people love to make these dramatic statements. But could you gentlemen tell us the other ranches that were --

LF: It's partly so; when he died he had five sons and he had five ranches, but he didn't buy one every time one of us was born. CE Would you name the ranches?

WF: Yes, I would like to say something about that. I was told by a very nice lady who is remembered by a lot of people here, even today, Mary Courtright, who was identified with the town of Larkspur. And she was the City Clerk there for many, many years. She told me of a conversation she had with my father on the Richmond Ferry. They were coming across the bay and she was in conversation with my father and he told her, as she later told me, " Well I'm going to have to go out and buy another ranch now because I just had another son." That was supposed to be I who was born at that time and so he had to go out and buy another ranch. And that's what she told me and the fact of the matter is that by the time of his death, he owned six ranches and he had six sons.

CE: Well so there is some truth to the story.

WF: One ranch was the C Ranch up at Novato; that was about 2,000 acres and that's where San Marin is now. Another one was what we called the Upper Ranch in Lucas Valley and right adjacent to it was the, what we called the Butcher Ranch. That was about 325 acres.

CE: And how big was the Upper Ranch?

WF: The Upper Ranch was 1116 acres, and these three were all contiguous, The Upper Ranch, The Butcher Ranch, and the Home Ranch. Then we had a ranch up at Cordelia, where the Red Top restaurant now is.

CE: Is that in Solano County?

WF: Yes. And also another ranch near Novato called The Black Point Ranch, where the Atherton road cut off goes between Black Point and Novato.

CF: How many acres was that?

WF: A little over 300.

CE: Well tell me, gentlemen, were these mainly dairy ranches?

WF: Yes.

CE: We want to discuss this industry which has made Marin County so rich in its heritage.

MF: They were all dairy ranches.

CE: They were all dairy ranches. Now tell us about the dairy industry in those early years. Manuel?

MF: Well the dairy industry in those years, there were just a few of the large dairies in central and southern Marin who shipped to San Francisco; the others were butter contractors.

CE: The ones in west Marin were butter.

MF: The ones in west Marin were all butter fat ranches.

CE: I see.

MF: Butter producers.

CE: And how would you get the milk to San Francisco?

MF: If you were near the railroad station then the dairymen would haul it to the railroad station, see. You shipped it to San Francisco in ten gallons cans, there were no tankers in those days.

CE: Would this go once a day or twice?

MF: Once a day.

CE: Once a day. Carlos?

CF: Well the milk would have to be kept frozen at the ranch if it was going to go home –

WF: Not frozen, refrigerated.

CF: Refrigerated, because if it went only once a day, you see, especially in summertime, it would spoil unless it was kept under refrigeration.

CE: Walter, do you want to tell us a little bit about the business, how it evolved, how it changed, perhaps? That was all hand milkers of course in those early days. And who would do the milking?

MF: We had milkers.

CE: Any particular type of person?

MF: Mostly all Portuguese.

CE: Portuguese.

MF: From the Azores, practically all Portuguese from the coast and Nicasio. Where there were Swiss and Italian dairymen. There were a lot of Swiss milkers, Swiss, Italian milkers. But they milked by hand for a good many years, until the first milking machines.

CE: Now on each ranch was provided housing for these people, of course.

MF: Yes.

CE: And they were fed. Were they, at the home ranch, ever included in the family gatherings?

MF: No, they were separate.

CE: Never, separate cook houses. Walter?

WF: Yes, they had bunkhouses. Most of the milkers were unmarried people and they lived right there on the ranch and most of them had no means of transportation. In later years, of course, they began to have automobiles. They began to come along in couples. But at that time there would be separate bunkhouses, separate cookhouses. The men would stay there. They would milk thirty cows by hand twice a day; then they would get four days off maybe at the end of the month and then they'd go to San Francisco and have a big time. You'd hope that they would come back in time to resume their schedule. Sometimes they did and many times they didn't. But they would stay and save their money and then after they had accumulated some why they would borrow some and ultimately they'd go off to some little dairy ranch of their own and start in their own dairy business.

CE: Are there any men today on ranches in Marin who served their apprenticeship with your father?

WF: Oh quite a few. I can think of one, I know, Joe Pimentel. I suppose he's retired now. But he's up in Sonoma. Every time he sees me, which isn't too often anymore, he makes a big joke, he says, " Walter I can tell you how old you are," and people say, "How come?" and the way he measured it was that he had been brought over from the Azores Islands by my father and given a job there and that's the year that I was born. When he arrived here is the same time I arrived here and Joe is still up in Sonoma. Then of course, I don't know if the Nunes boys’ father ever worked for my father but he was -- The Nunes boys still operate up at Novato. I'm sure there are quite a few people who came and worked there on the ranch, for my father, and later went off and started their own business and became very successful at it.

CE: Louis, do you have any stories you want to share with us on this dairy enterprise? Now you were involved in it probably more years then any of the other men.

LF: Yes. I remember that milking by hand in those days was of course a difficult job. As Walt said, they milked about 30 cows a day, a split shift. They milk at -- Go to work at 1:30 in the morning and maybe milk until about 6:00 and clean up and have breakfast and then go out and do a little work around the ranch for a few hours and then maybe have a little rest before lunch and then milk again around 1:30 in the afternoon. I remember that if they became ill or for any reason discontinued milking for a while it was always very difficult for them to start in again because their hands were weak. I often saw people where other milkers would have to come and help them out. They weren't able to finish their string until they had gotten in shape again. I also remember, I think it was in 1942, when at the Terra Linda Ranch or the Home Ranch we first changed from hand milking to machine milking. During the war, of course, it was very difficult to get help, some of those young milkers were able to go to San Francisco and get jobs on the docks and so forth. I remember sometimes we would have three or four older men trying to milk 25 or 30 cows, so we finally -- Manuel made the decision to change from hand milking into machine.

CE: Was there always enough pasture land, pasture land for dairy cattle? Or did you ever have to import?

MF: Pasture was used mostly in the spring, when grass is green for milk production, otherwise we'd use more hay for cattle. The green grass season -- Then when that died up we went to supplemental feeding of alfalfa and grain.

CE: But did you have most of that on your other lands or would you have to buy that and bring it in?

MF: That was all purchased. It was shipped in from Sacramento and San Joaquin Valley by trucks.

CE: Did you have a diversification of breeds of cattle, for example, Jerseys, Guernsey, Hereford.

MF: Different parts of the county there are more Jerseys; they adapted themselves better to the west coast and eventually in central and southern Marin they went to straight Holstein herds for larger production.

CE: During those years on the ranch, do you ever remember a drought that we have recently gone through?

MF: No, never.

CE: Of large proportions?

MF: We had some light springs where it didn't rain until February or March. We've had light rains, light grass, but never a drought. The closest I've ever seen to it in the dairy business was approximately $95.00 a ton; it should be around fifty dollars, 45 or 50. We're now shipping it in today from Idaho, Oregon and Washington to take care of the situation.

CE: Are any of you gentlemen still active in the Dairymen's Association in any way, an advisory way? Walter, you?

WF: No.

CF: Manuel, you're still a consultant in the Dairymen's Building Company in Novato, are you not?

MF: Yes, that's a co-op.

CE: Co-op.

CF: Carla I would like to add something about my father, bring my father back into the situation.

CE: Yes, please do.

CF: In these six dairy ranches which he had, he always was a partner but he became a partner by putting men into positions where they would have a half interest and he would have a half interest.

CE: What was the purpose of that, Carlos?

CF: Well one purpose was to finance these good dairymen and another purpose was to make money for himself.

CE: Do you have any opinion on that, Manuel?

MF: Well the Solano County Ranch was always under lease, not a partnership.

CF: No, I did not mean Solano.

MF: Black Point Ranch was always under a lease, never a partnership. Butcher Ranch was always under lease, never a partnership. The only partnerships were in the Home Ranch, the Upper Ranch and the C Ranch in Novato.

CE: Well what happened, gentlemen, in Marin County, to cause you to eventually break up the ranches and sell some of your land for the inevitable subdivisions? Who wants to start the story? Manuel, do you?

MF: The Assessor.

CE: Well, so they hiked the assessments. Why?

MF: The valuations up so high when they started to build around us that the dairy cattle could no longer make a profit for us.

CE: Well this large influx of people occurred when, after World War II?

MF: After World War II.

CE: What happened after World War II?

WF: I'd like to go back a little and take some of the blame off the assessor. I think we first sold some ranches during the depression. I think that was the primary reason; we were land poor. Some of these ranches, as Manuel said, were under lease and sometimes they weren't able to pay their rents but we had to pay the taxes. And so I think that was the primary reason for the sale of some of the ranches. However I --

CE: Years ago?

WF: Years ago.

CE: Well then pressures were put upon you, I imagine, after World War II to relinquish some of this land, wasn't it, by developers?

WF: Well yes. I think it really came along in two stages, just trying to reflect upon it, because as a matter of fact we did sell some of the ranches prior to -- We sold the Black Point Ranch quite early in the game, long before World War II came along. We sold the Cordelia Ranch during World War II.

LF: 1939, ‘38.

WF: Just prior to it, I see. There was the further fact that now we had an estate that was owned by eight different families.

CE: Well that's true.

WF: My father left what he owned to his children and so there were eight owners and some of them were in different circumstances. And during the depression, since, at that time, Manuel and I first entered into the dairy business in 1932, and we had a brother-in-law who was engaged in the dairy business but the others were not and here we had several ranches, not all of them right here in the county. And because of the economic problems involved we began to liquidate little by little. But then after we sold the Cordelia Ranch, the Black Point Ranch, and then we had the four right here in Marin County, the C Ranch up in Novato and three ranches here in Lucas Valley, that was after the housing situation began to boom in Marin County and then the assessor began to assess land, dairy land, as potential sub-division. They would assess it on a value of $2,000 an acre or so and you couldn't run cows on there. As we used to say, the people will pay more for land than the cows will and you were just forced out of business, not only ourselves but many other dairymen. They sold their ranches and moved their herds up to Sonoma County where the land was not valued so highly for tax purposes. We had a situation at the C Ranch in Novato the year following the World War II where the entire income from dairying purposes was less than the tax bill, so we were losing money. We were getting the maximum rental on the property that dairying could afford but the tax was so high because of potential subdivision that it just forged us into liquidation.

CE: All of you gentlemen agree on that?

All: Yes.

CE: Well now what happened in around the early 1950s regarding the Home Ranch property? Pressure had been brought to sub-divide, so what happened?

WF: Well, we couldn't pay the taxes there either so we began to succumb to the pressures to develop it and we entered into a contract with a man by the name of George Goheen in, Manuel's birthday, May 22, 1953, to turn it over to him in stages for purposes of residential development. And then he in turn brought in some other fellows and started work on July 1,1954. They broke ground for a residential subdivision and we terminated the dairy operation at that time because there's something incompatible about trying to run a dairy with homes, and dogs and cows and cats and manure and flies, right along someone who just bought a nice new home and just moved over from San Francisco and they don't want to be suffering those inconveniences. So we terminated the activities there and gradually developed. Different people came along; Joe Eichler came along, and they would buy up a small piece of ground and develop it and sell it and then he'd come back and buy another piece. So that's the way it went.

CE: Well Carlos would you tell us how the name came about for this area, this new sub-division.

CF: Terra Linda.

CE: Yes pronounce it for us. I think most of us pronounce the name incorrectly. It's Portuguese, is it not?

CF: Yes it's Portuguese. Terra Linda

CE: Terra Linda. Any member of your family name it?

CF: My sister Rose named it. We were requested by the developers to suggest a name for it so all members of the family submitted names and finally they selected the name of Terra Linda and it became Terra Linda. It's not Spanish, it's Portuguese.

CE: Portuguese of course. And then, as Walter said, in 1954 you did close down the home ranch in toto then?

WF: Yes.

CE: Well now the ranch house was still there, that lovely home. That was kept there wasn't it? For some years.

WF: Yes. The area immediately surrounding it of course was reserved. We never sold it. We always intended that we would not sell it; we would try to preserve it and ultimately we donated it to the Catholic Church, expecting that there would be a rectory and a school which has eventuated. There is now the St. Isabella Parish Rectory there and the school there, the church.

CF: That quadrangle was ten acres.

CE: Ten acres. CF Yes, which we donated.

WF: I might add that the -- After the ten acres and the home were donated to the archdiocese, we tried to keep the -- to preserve the home but because of vandalism and insurance problems and so forth, I suppose the archbishop, or whoever, decided that they had to get rid of it. There were complaints from parents; the place was being used improperly and so forth. It was finally razed.

CE: That's unfortunate because it was a magnificent home and has seen so much history.

WF: Yes.

CF: I understand it was built in 1868.

CE: No, I didn't know that. Did you mention that earlier?

CF: No I didn't, but that's my understanding, 1868.

WF: I don't remember the year, but about that.

CE: With the interest today in the preservation and restoration of all old homes, I doubt if the home would have been destroyed. I think it would have been saved had it occurred even twenty-five years later.

WF: Yes.

CE: Tell me, gentlemen, what would you think your father's reaction would be to the present development and use of his original ranch lands? Louis, do you have an opinion?

LF: Yes. One of my father's favorite occupations, after dinner, was to take his children on a long walk down, oh, three quarters of a mile, out to the Petaluma Road and back and discuss things with us and so forth. I remember at the time being eight or nine years of age and he said, "Someday all of this property is going to be covered with houses, homes.” He said, “Of course, I'll never see it and I don't think you will, but your children will." And we used to shake our heads and think that perhaps senility had begun to set in, but he was pretty farsighted. Maybe that's why he was such a good businessman.

CE: It would seem so. Well what are your feelings on this matter, Manuel? How do you feel about the way the land has changed? It's inevitable?

MF: It's inevitable; it's progress; the concentration of people in the Bay area has naturally spread out to the suburbs.

CE: It is considered a most desirable place to live, in Terra Linda.

MF: A nice place to live. When you travel around different parts of the United Sates, Marin County looks pretty nice.

CE: How do you feel about it, Carlos?

CF: Oh I definitely feel that the people who are living out there are fortunate and I also have a feeling that sometimes disturbs me, that as soon as someone moves out there then he wants to close the gates and keep everybody else out, and this is sort of the spirit of Marin County at the present time. “I'm here. Keep everybody else out.”

CE: This is not a unique feeling. Everybody that has moved to Marin has had a similar feeling over the last, I suppose, seventy-five years, “I'm here but now let's not let anyone else.” Walter, would you like to comment on --

WF: Well pretty much the same effect, another slogan I've heard around City Hall quite a bit is that, "You know, now that we're all aboard, let's pull up the gangplank." They began to exclude others to share in the enjoyment of what they cherished so much. I've always felt that the Home Ranch was a beautiful place and it should be enjoyed, not by a certain segment of the population, but by the poor as well as those who are --

CE: Affluent.

WF: I think so, but zoning didn't permit it. I mean we had a lot of what we called "snob zoning." The people come in and everybody after they are there, they don't want anything that's only equal to theirs, they want the next development to be better than theirs so it enhances the value of their own and this results in "snob zoning." When you try to have a development that would permit senior citizens or even like, the cycle is when a man first gets married he can't afford very much; he wants a little apartment. Well the home owners who have four bedroom homes, they don't want any apartment houses, which is too bad because one should be able to live his entire cycle right out there in the home ranch and this has been our goal. But we've been frustrated pretty much by city officials and special interest groups.

CF: I might mention here that Walter was Chairman of the Marin Planning Commission at one time and I suppose that because of his thinking he is no longer a member of it.

CE: Well, thank heavens for men like Walter. Well gentlemen before we conclude our reminiscing today, I'd like to go around to each of you and have you describe, have your impressions of your father. Carlos, let's start with you. His portrait hangs here, above your desk, in your lovely office.

CF: I don't know why you have to start with me but --

CE: Well you're our host.

CF: You know nothing has been said about my father’s banking career with the Bank of Italy.

CE: We were going to go back to that, that's right. Thank you for reminding me. First it was the Portuguese American Bank.

CF: Then it was the Bank of San Rafael.

CE: Bank of Italy first, wasn't it?

CF: No, Bank of San Rafael.

CE: He co-founded that bank I understand with Mr. A.W. Foster. Is that correct?

CF: That's correct. Mr. A. W. Foster was the first President. My father was the first Vice President, became president when Mr. Foster died. M.J. Pedrotti became President when my father died and William P. Murray, Sr. became President when Mr. Pedrotti died and the bank merged with the Crocker Anglo National Bank in the year --

MF: 1962.

CF: My brother Manuel says 62. He was on the Board of Directors at that time so he ought to know. Then my father became associated with the Bank of Italy, now the Bank of America.

CE: Well, he became associated when A. P. Giannini was alive, Carlos?

CF: That's right.

CE: Were they good friends?

CF: Very good friends. In fact, the Bank of America was the trustee of my father's estate. And the estate continued in trust until Walter became 21 years of age. What year was that Walter?

WF: 1932.

CF: So from 1923 to 1932 the estate was in trust. And I hold here a resolution passed by the Board of Directors of the old Bank of Italy and inscribed in this book, dated October 9, 1923, signed by A. P. Giannini as President and Joseph F. Cavagnaro as Secretary. And this is "In Memoriam to Manuel T. Freitas." That is the title of it. As with quite a few other things this remains as a sort of a -- simple for the purpose of having it in one central place where people can see it.

CE: Well I notice your walls are filled with memorabilia and citations to your father and your family. Tell me, in addition to the six dairy ranches, upon his death, did he leave any other property, in the area in San Rafael?

WF: Yes, he owned the bank which is pictured on the wall here someplace, 4th and B Street.

CE: Yes, it's here.

WF: He owned that bank.

LF: Presently Crocker, or whatever they call that bank.

CF: Then known as the Freitas Building.

CE: All right, so you’re saying Carlos, you wanted to get in about your father's expertise as a banker and we have, but personally would you tell us your -- an impression of your father? Was he strict? Was he stern? Was he demanding?

CF: He was a disciplinarian. As far as I was concerned he was strict but any father who is a disciplinarian when you're in your teens is considered strict. I suppose nowadays it's considered worst than strict. He was very fair and I'll say this for him, not one of his eight children ever was a burden on the taxpayers as far as school is concerned. They've always been in private schools, which was considerable of an expense, but he always seemed to have enough money to take care of that. When he died, I mean, he came here in debt for his passage and when he died he left an estate worth a million dollars.

CE: Tell me one more thing, Carlos. What did you learn from your father that has prevailed during your lifetime?

CF: Well one thing I learned was Portuguese, which has still prevailed, but the most important thing I suppose that I've learned is to try to be honest and to have integrity and to always remember your antecedents. Never forget that you come from the Portuguese stock.

CE: Thank you Carlos. Louis?

LF: Yes, I think that my father was a very wonderful man. I agree with Carl. He had a certain firmness about him but extremely fair. Of course I was only a young child but I felt when I looked around at my other brothers and sisters that there were no favorites as far as my father was concerned. I agree with Carl, too, that he was -- One of the things I learned was that he was a good man. I was glad to see a copy of Who's Who recently that the, upon his death, the San Rafael Independent described him as a very clean businessman. He had integrity; he had the trust of everybody about him. I remember as a child many, many people coming and knocking at the door and asking him for help and advice and so forth. I might add, too, that this I could say about my mother. I think the both of them had a tremendous influence upon us with regard to what is right and what is wrong. I so well remember my mother's death, which she died at home. Of course she had been ill for so many years that we -- I didn't realize, we didn't realize the sickness, or that it was terminal. But this particular day we were told not to go to school, which of course was wonderful for us, but we were told to remain around the house and to be quiet. And at three o'clock in the afternoon we were brought in and lined up and each of us went up to the mother and kissed her goodbye and she told us to be good boy and so forth and so on, and about two hours later she died. It was a wonderful death and a wonderful memory.

CE: Thank you, Louis. Manuel?

MF: Well my brothers Carlos and Louis have covered it adequately. I agree thoroughly with them that my dad -- I was already 23 when he passed away and I remember learning financing and dairying from my dad and I tried to follow exactly his patterns in doing business. Like, he did a lot in business without contracts, by word of mouth. He always insisted, even if you made a bad contract, stay with it. Have a lot of self respect and carry on business in proper and honest manner and I've tried to do that.

CE: I'm sure you have. And Walter, let's close with you.

WF: Well obviously he was a financial genius. A man without education and his record speaks for itself and for him in that regard. But of course I was only eleven when he died and I think that, most particularly, after my mother died that I became well acquainted with my father because my recollection is that he severed a lot of his business connections instantly upon the death of my mother. He brought in his widowed sister and daughter to help raise us, take care of us, but he too was with us a great deal. And he was political in the sense that he was friendly with Governor Stephens. I remember Archbishop Hanna came over to church and he'd ride in the car and he had all kind of friends like that. But one of the nicest things that I can remember about him is, when people would say to me, “Well you're a nice young fellow. What are you going to do when you grow up?, you know. And I'd be embarrassed and I'd say, “I'm going to be a policeman or a fireman,” or something that wore a uniform, and he would always pat my head and say, "You do whatever you want to do. If you want to run a peanut wagon, you run a peanut wagon." I thought that was very good advi

CE: just don't go doing something because it's fashionable; you do what you want to do and be independent and I've tried to follow that advice.

CE: Thank you Walter. Well there is no doubt that Manuel T. Freitas was a remarkable man. His portrait, in this office of Judge Carlos Freitas, reflects strong character, integrity, and determination of spirit without sacrifice of warmth, understanding and love. You gentlemen must indeed be proud of your heritage. Little did he know, on that day, over a hundred years ago, when he left the Azores as a penniless boy of seventeen, unable to speak English, what a part he and his descendents would play in the development, growth and future of Marin County. Thank you gentlemen for sharing his story with us today.

CF: We all thank you, Carla, and we wish the record to show that in this room also with us is a young lady named, Mrs. Thomas Kent, widow of Thomas Kent of the old Kent family of Kent Woodlands and whose father was the congressman from this district for many years. I thank you, Mrs. Kent, for joining us here today.

AK: It's a pleasure to be here.