ORAL HISTORY PROJECT OF THE MARIN COUNTY FREE LIBRARY Anne T. Kent California Room Original recording available at the Anne T. Kent California Room © All materials copyright Marin County Free Library. Transcript made available for research purposes only. All rights are reserved to the Marin County Free Library. Requests for permission to quote for publication should be addressed to the: Anne T. Kent California Room Marin County Free Library 3501 Civic Center Dr. #427 San Rafael, California, 94903

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INTERVIEW WITH FLORENCE FILIPPINI TOMASINI KNECHT
by Carla Ehat & Anne Kent
August 19, 1980

INTERVIEWEE: Florence Filippini Tomasini Knecht (FK)
INTERVIEWERS: Carla Ehat (CE) and Anne Kent (AK)
DATE OF INTERVIEW: August 19, 1980
TRANSCRIBER: Marjorie Hoffman



CE: Today is Tuesday, August 19th, 1980. Once again continuing the Oral History Program of the California Room at the Marin County Library, Mrs. Thomas Kent and I find ourselves in Petaluma. We are at the residence of Florence Filippini Tomasini Knecht. Presently her residence is at 1288 Aspen Way in Petaluma. We’ve come this afternoon to talk with Florence about her early life in Nicasio, where she was born on December 26, 1892, and left in 1912. And your home then became Petaluma, is that correct? Well now, Florence, it’s a pleasure to be here today. I notice that there is a book that was put out on Nicasio when, I suppose in honoring the restoration of St. Mary’s Catholic Church in 1979, and there’s some photographs of the Tomasini family and also your own family, the Edward Cornwells. Now, tell us a little bit about your heritage. I understand your father came from Switzerland. Tell us a little bit about that.

FK: Well, he came here when he was 16 years of age.

CE: Where did he come from?

FK: He came from Cevio, Switzerland.

CE: How do you spell that?

FK: C-e-v-i-o.

CE: Cevio.

FK: And he went to the Charles Martin Ranch in Chileno Valley as a boy and that’s where he learned the dairy business.

CE: Did he ever tell you why he came to Marin? The reason I ask is -- Mrs. Kent, remember when we interviewed Nellie McIsaac? She mentioned that they were Swiss and that they sort of ran a kind of unofficial Swiss Consulate. They would write back to Switzerland and tell young boys there were jobs available on ranches. Do you suppose that was a similar story?

FK: That was the same thing.

CE: Similar story. So, he settled in Chileno Valley and then what, worked for Mr. Martin?

FK: Went to work for Mr. Martin until -- I really don’t know. Well, he had learned the business and then he moved to Nicasio and why I don’t know. But, he moved and he rented a ranch called the Palmer Ranch at that time and all three of the children were born at this ranch, at the Palmer Ranch. There was my brother, Ernest.

CE: Well, first we have to get him married to your mother, Ora May Cornwell. How did that come about? Was your mother from that area, out in Chileno Valley also?

FK: No, she was living in Nicasio at that time with her parents, they had also moved there.

CE: But she was born in Petaluma?

FK: Yes, she was born in Petaluma. She and her parents moved to Nicasio, I don’t know just when.

CE: Why or when?

FK: No, I don’t know why either. But, is was there where she met my father, was at Nicasio. I presume at a dance or something, you know.

CE: It wasn’t a very large community, was it?

FK: Oh, no, no, very small.

CE: Are you the first born of that marriage?

FK: No, my brother.

CE: What was his name?

FK: Ernest Filippini.

CE: Is he still alive?

FK: No, he passed away. Can’t say how many years it was.

CE: Are there children of his?

FK: Yes, he had two children, a boy and a girl. The girl is living in Sacramento and she has a family and grandchildren.

CE: Well, good, so the Filippinis have spread from Marin.

FK: Yes. And the son is living at Cambria down below Fresno and they have children.

CE: Well, getting back to you, were you the next born?

FK: Yes, I was the next.

CE: December 26, 1892. The day after Christmas. That must have been an exciting time for your family?

FK: Well, my family, the children as they were coming along, especially the grandchildren, enjoyed that because we always exchanged gifts and I would forget my birthday and all of a sudden here were the youngsters coming with packages for me just getting the biggest kick out of it. So it wasn’t too bad.

CE: You were born at home?

FK: Yes.

CE: And where was the house? Do you have a picture of that house?

FK: No, I don’t have. But that was the Palmer Ranch.

CE: The Palmer Ranch.

FK: Yes.

CE: Was it in town or out of town?

FK: No, it was out. I can tell you where.

CE: Well, tell us roughly the site.

FK: Do you know where the county yard is where they keep their --

CE: Yes.

FK: Well, the road goes right in back of there and goes several miles back in.

CE: That’s in between Nicasio proper and near the lake on your way towards Petaluma, is it not?

FK: Yes, yes.

CE: And that’s where you were born?

FK: Yes.

CE: Is that ranch still standing?

FK: Oh, yes. I don’t know who is living there.

CE: Is it still an active dairy ranch?

FK: Yes, as far as I know.

CE: And then what is the third member of your family?

FK: My sister --

CE: What is her name?

FK: Hers is Jessie Filippini Ernie.

CE: Is she still alive?

FK: Yes, she lives in Oregon. Grants Pass.

CE: Well, when you say you live in Nicasio, do you -- Most people think of Nicasio as that town with one square plot, with that wonderful church that’s been restored, St. Mary’s, and they -- The inn, today, or the roadhouse, whatever you want to call it -- Do you remember the hotel?

FK: Oh, yes, we went to dances there. That’s where our entertainment was, really. We always had dances, all-night dances.

CE: Tell us a little bit about your early life. Before, though, would you kind of describe your mother and tell us about her attributes?

FK: Well, I can remember her as a very good housekeeper and a hard worker. She enjoyed the ranch life very much although she had never been a rancher until she was married.

CE: Until she was married to your father.

FK: Yes. She had this one German girl who was with her for many years helping her and I can remember she loved Limburger cheese and my mother said you could have it if you keep it in the safe outside. And I used to see her go out there and eat it and I wondered why she had to eat it out there.

CE: How extensive was the ranch?

FK: Oh, I couldn’t begin to tell you, it was a large ranch.

CE: Did you have many cattle, dairy cattle?

FK: Yes, there were many.

CE: A hundred?

FK: Oh, at least. I know my dad always had about three men, three or four men to help him.

CE: In that twice-a-day effort?

FK: Yes. I don’t know how often but it seems to me it was every day that he shipped butter to San Francisco. He had a man who was a butter maker; that was all he did.

CE: How would he get it to San Francisco?

FK: Well, as I remember he would bring it down to Nicasio and then it was taken on somehow to San Rafael and sent on -- I don’t know. I never did know.

CE: Horse and wagon?

FK: Well, I don’t know if it was horse and wagon.

CE: Or the trains were in there. Maybe the trains by 1875 were running through there.

AK: But the horse and wagon first, to the train.

FK: Yes, it had to go by horse and wagon to the train. Now, whether it was put on in San Geronimo or not, I don’t remember.

CE: Do you resemble your mother?

FK: I think I look more like my mother than my father. My sister looks more like my father.

CE: Did she teach you many household things that stayed with you the rest of your life?

FK: Oh, yes, oh, yes.

CE: For example what?

FK: I learned to cook and keep house, take care of the rooms and everything.

CE: Sew? Did she teach you sewing?

FK: Yes, to a degree, but I did learn to sew afterwards, after I was married.

CE: And what about your father, before we continue with you. Describe your father.

FK: Well, he was an easy-going person. I don’t ever remember him scolding any of us or spanking us or anything. He had a cute little way of telling us that he knew what was going on, such as, in those days they set the milk in pans and had what they called the milk house. One special room where they kept it on racks. And I loved cream. So I used to go over and just scrape the cream off the edge of the pan and eat it and then turn the pan around. So my dad came in one morning and said, “You know, I think I’ve got a mouse over in the milk shed,” he said, and he looked out of the corner of his eye at me. I knew what he was talking about. “I’ll just have to be watching for him,” and that stopped me. And that’s the way he punished us.

CE: Was he a medium-statured man?

FK: Yes, he was always a slim sort of man.

CE: Was the local church your faith?

FK: No. We were Protestants. In fact, we were the only Protestants in Nicasio for many years.

CE: Did that make a difference?

FK: No, not a bit. I sang in the choir. I went to church in that capacity with my neighbors and I enjoyed it. Oh, I just thought it was wonderful.

CE: Well, would your mother and your parents go to Petaluma to church?

FK: No, the only way they got to go to church and they were religious, was when the preacher would come from San Rafael up to San Geronimo and hold services in the church there and that’s where I was baptized. In the little school in San Geronimo.

CE: Was Bible reading a part of your family life?

FK: Yes, in a way; we always had a Bible.

CE: What were your amusements before you got of school age? Did you ride a --

FK: Oh, well I rode horseback --

CE: As soon as you could stand?

FK: Oh, yes. And I rode horseback to school, all through grammar school. We were never close enough for us to walk.

CE: Never close enough to walk. Now, was the school what is presently a red building and it had been Nicasio School House, now owned by some retired military man, I understand. Is it on the same site?

FK: Right the same place and that’s where we all went to school there.

CE: That’s a couple or three miles for you to ride.

FK: Well, from where we were born, yes, it was three or four miles, I think. Then we moved from there later to what they call the Estey Ranch and that was a ranch on the road going to San Rafael from Nicasio and it ran down to the Lucas Valley Road. One point of the ranch was down there and it extended up further. I don’t remember how many acres there were in that ranch, it was a smaller one. My dad was just gradually retiring.

CE: Did he buy these properties?

FK: Well, the first one he rented but this little ranch he bought. In the meantime he also bought the property where my son now lives.

CE: And what is your son’s first name, Mr. Tomasini?

FK: Henry.

CE: Henry, and he lives in Nicasio today?

FK: Yes, on this ranch which is now about three miles off the main road. You turn, let’s see now --

CE: Well, we have a map here. That wasn’t the ranch you mentioned earlier, was it?

FK: It’s not the one where we were born, no.

CE: You were born here on the ranch near the Black Mountain.

FK: No, no, no. My husband was born there.

CE: Your husband. Here we are at -- Here’s Nicasio. Now here’s the Lucas Valley Road. Is it anywhere near --

FK: Well, it does come down to the Lucas Valley Road, the ranch does, you see, and then it extends up here several miles.

CE: I see. Well, tell us about your school days a bit. What was it that was so wonderful about it? In talking to some of the other women who shared your experience they were very pleased with that school.

FK: Well, you know we could have fun with most anything in those days. We weren’t thinking of going miles away. We found our own amusements at home and at school and we always got along, the children. We played tag and fall down and skin our knees.

CE: Happy days, happy childhood days.

FK: That’s really what it was. But the next place where we moved was on the road that goes into where my son lives now, that’s just in back of Nicasio, and that was a little smaller place. My dad had chickens, raised chickens; that was his hobby, he said. We had a cow for our own use, etc., etc.

CE: Kind of a little miniature farm.

FK: Yes, that’s what it was. Stayed there for a good many years and I walked to school from there. It was close enough to walk to school.

CE: When you finished this Nicasio School where did you go to school?

FK: San Rafael High.

CE: San Rafael High. Now how would you get there every day?

FK: Well, I boarded.

CE: Oh, you boarded.

FK: Yes, I boarded.

CE: At somebody’s home?

FK: I boarded with Mrs. Daly and her daughter just across the street from the park, Boyd Park. We used to play tennis there. Anyone in high school who wanted a partner to play tennis, they’d come up because they knew I would be there.

CE: One of the ladies we interviewed was Eleanor Gilogly Murray. Did you know her?

FK: Oh, yes. She was my teacher.

CE: She was everybody’s teacher.

FK: She was my Spanish teacher.

CE: She’s coming -- We’ll see her on Sunday. By the way, do you think you can join us?

FK: Well, I was going to ask more about it. What time was it supposed to be?

CE: Well, it’s -- party. You’ll meet a lot of people and some of them you’ll know. We have some ranchers coming out from West Marin: Boyd Stewart; Burbank, David Burgess Burbank.

FK: I know Boyd. He’s a close neighbor of ours, Boyd Stewart. I haven’t seen him for years. I knew his mother.

CE: Nicasio School, Florence, how many were in your graduating class?

FK: Four.

CE: Four! Do you remember their names?

FK: Yes, there was Francis Miller and John Stewart and --

CE: Any relation to Boyd?

FK: Well, I think he worked there for the Stewarts but I don’t think they were related. And then the other one was Manuel. I don’t know. He worked for the Millers.

CE: The Millers. Now this is the daughter of the man who had the hotel?

FK: They were related, I believe. I didn’t know this man who owned the hotel.

CE: Well, the hotel was quite a place. Could you describe it for us?

FK: In what way?

CE: Well, you walk in and you have a -- typical entrance to a hotel, with a registration desk. Do you have a bar? Do you have a --

FK: There was a bar someplace.

CE: But you never went in that, of course.

FK: There was a nice sitting room downstairs and it had a large kitchen and banquet hall in the back where after our dances and well we’d have a midnight supper, they called it. And the mothers of this club -- It was a hunting club that would give these dances and the mothers would prepare the food. Oh, we’d have a regular banquet. And upstairs was the dance hall and I guess the rooms were up there, bedrooms and all, but the dance hall was where we always had the dances. At least twice a year they had a dance.

CE: Who would go to that hotel?

FK: As guests? A lot of San Francisco people used to come to Nicasio then. I guess to get out in the country.

CE: Did they go hunting? Was there a stage line in there that met the train or something?

FK: Yes, stage line daily from San Geronimo.

CE: San Geronimo.

FK: Yes.

CE: That was a train stop and then it would be stage? Horses or --

FK: Stage coach and horses and that carried the mail back and forth and anything else. And they’d deliver mail on the way back from San Geronimo to the ones out in the country, along the road.

CE: Do you remember the livery stable? Was there one in your town?

FK: Yes there was one there, but it wasn’t of any interest especially to me. I recall it after I looked at the pictures.

CE: What were some of the markets that were there? You had to buy meat somewhere.

FK: Well, there was a little butcher shop there and --

CE: Leg of lamb for 75 cents?

FK: Oh, I bet it was cheaper than that. We bought most of our meat there. My dad used to go to town, San Rafael usually, once a week and --

CE: Would he take you children?

FK: Well, of course, we were usually in school, but my mother would go with him sometimes. That was when we had the little ranch and had chickens and he’d go in once a week and deliver the eggs to different ones. He had private people who bought.

CE: Well, then you went on to high school. Did your future husband -- Had you known him -- Moreno, known as M.C.?

FK: Not for long. He had lived in Nicasio with his parents. He was born there, but he moved away. I was still a youngster. In fact, maybe I wasn’t born yet when he moved away with his family.

CE: Was he older than you?

FK: Yes.

CE: So you became acquainted --

FK: Then when he moved back. He had been in San Francisco, he and his brothers, working down there. He worked for I. Magnin’s. Then he came back to Nicasio to go onto the ranch, onto the Tomasini Traversi Ranch, which is the first ranch out of Nicasio going to San Rafael. Well, the ranch where they took the house off and gave to --

CE: Oh, That Ellen Redding McNeil has restored?

FK: Yes.

CE: I see.

FK: And I lived in that little house when we were first married.

CE: What year did you marry?

FK: 1912. January, 1912.

CE: You say he is known as M.C. What does that mean?

FK: Moreno Childes, M.C.

CE: Did he go into dairy ranching also? Did he follow the family tradition?

FK: Well, that was a dairy ranch, yes. But we only lived there about a year because I became ill and then his health wasn’t too good, so he thought we might just as well retire. He still kept an interest in the ranch which belonged to his mother and her brother.

CE: His father had died by then?

FK: Yes. He came back there when he was 21. He was just 21.

CE: That was a switch from I. Magnin.

FK: Yes, but he loved it.

CE: He had the city experience and yet he was drawn back to the country.

FK: Well, yes. So then we moved to Petaluma, moved up there in 1912, the end of 1912, and he went to work with his brother in the hardware store.

CE: And where was that, in Petaluma?

FK: In Petaluma.

CE: Are there many Tomasinis in Petaluma? Other than your family?

FK: Well yes, Henry has a cousin here, George. I don’t think there is anyone closer related.

CE: All right, tell us about your children just for a moment. Let’s get their names.

FK: Well, I had two. Henry Edward, he was the first one.

CE: And when was Henry Edward born?

FK: In 1919.

CE: In 1919. What date?

FK: Oh, let me see now. June 16th I believe it is.

CE: During World War I was your husband involved in any way with that effort?

FK: No, no. But Henry was in World War II.

CE: And your next child?

FK: Earl Arthur.

CE: Earl Arthur. And when was he born?

FK: Let me see now. He didn’t stay with us very long. November 15, 1920.

CE: And those are all your children?

FK: Yes.

CE: You’re a grandmother I presume by now?

FK: Oh, great-grandmother, great-grandmother by four and I have another one coming next month. But Earl Arthur passed away six months after --

CE: After he was born?

FK: Yes. I was just looking here at just what the date was.

CE: Oh, dear. So you’ve had one son and all these grandchildren and great-grandchildren from Henry. Now, refresh my memory. Is Henry the one who lives in Nicasio today?

FK: Yes.

CE: Is he on any part of the original ranch?

FK: Yes. He’s living on a ranch that my dad bought. I have the deed to it some place. It’s rather interesting. Maybe you’d like to see it.

CE: All right. Your brother bought this?

FK: He bought it and rented it; that was rented. It was over 500 acres and he rented it as a dairy ranch. And finally those people who had rented it for so many years -- The grandson came to run the ranch because the elderly Mr. Cotta had passed away.

CE: Cotta?

FK: Cotta. C-o-t-t-a.

CE: So they finally sold it to your son?

FK: No, I inherited that when my mother died. My sister and I --

CE: Inherited that?

FK: The ranch and the Estey place and another little one that they had, we inherited all three of them. Then we split them up and I bought my sister out. She took the Estey Ranch and I --

CE: And now Henry has what?

FK: In the property you mean?

CE: Yes.

FK: Well, he and I made a little agreement that I would give him half of it.

CE: So he is working this ranch which formerly was the Cotta Ranch?

FK: Yes. And he is taking care of any expenses he wants on the ranch and paying me small rent for my half.

CE: He looks like a very fine fellow.

FK: Oh, he’s been so good to me; I don’t know what I would have done without him.

CE: You must be very proud indeed of his efforts.

FK: That’s our four generation picture.

CE: That’s Henry and that’s one of his -- oldest son. What’s his name?

FK: Terry. And that’s little Benjamin Tomasini. That’s my first great-grandchild.

CE: Does Henry continue the dairy effort, or what does he have?

FK: No. They started -- What he really wanted it for was because of 4-H. The children all went through 4-H.

CE: Oh, really? That’s wonderful.

FK: He and Eloise were in 4-H with them for 16 years.

CE: Eloise is his wife and the mother of the children.

FK: Yes.

CE: Isn’t that wonderful? Is there no other effort on this 500 acre ranch other than the 4-H?

FK: No. They have two or three horses, saddle horses.

CE: Did they build a home out there?

FK: Yes, after the lake came in. They took all our level ground, all the buildings, so he had to start all over.

AK: Now is that the Nicasio lake or the Stafford?

FK: Nicasio.

CE: Nicasio. Remember she was showing us on the map where the ranch was.

AK: Yes.

CE: Well, I hope they paid you well for it.

FK: Yes, they did finally. But they started out and we said, “What are we going to do?” You know, the property with no buildings. But we had a lawyer from San Francisco to handle it finally and we got well paid for it. So I said put it all back into the land because they had to put in a new water system, everything: barn, house.

AK: Well, I just wondered if the lake took part or all of it and what you’re talking about now is right next to the lake.

FK: Yes, their house is built up on the hill just facing the lake. It’s very pretty.

CE: We can probably see it when we drive.

FK: Well, no it’s away across -- Where you can see is just about the time you get to where the county has their implements and things and it you’re going from this way look right across the way this way and if you get the right spot you can see it.

CE: It’s looking west then?

FK: No, it’s east, I think. I’m like the fellow that came our here and didn’t know which was left and right.

CE: Well, let’s get back to Nicasio for a moment. You have brought with you some old photographs.

FK: I think most of those are in that book.

CE: In the book that was published in 1979.

FK: Yeah. But they’re old pictures.

CE: Yes, but they’re great pictures.

FK: Now this one here is the Tomasini family. This is my husband and this is his brother, A. F. And his sister is not there. I think she had passed away. Then this is their brother, Henry.

CE: Where did you live in Petaluma at that time, when this photograph was taken in 1903?

FK: I wasn’t in Petaluma then.

CE: No, that’s right. That’s his family. Excuse me.

CE: Where was the family home? Do you know? I’ve seen houses like this. It might be still standing.

FK: There’s a picture of it here somewhere. There it is. That was the one in Nicasio. That’s the square; that was in the book. It turned out pretty good, though.

CE: It shows the old hotel, the church, and this little path, kitty corner, and there’s the school.

FK: Now this is the barn, the livery barn. And then over here --

CE: Tell me, where were these sites of some of these places? Where was the butcher shop?

FK: Well, I can show it to you over here. There’s the house and I think this is the store and the butcher shop was right in here somewhere.

CE: I think Ellen Reddy McNeil said some restoration was going on in that old butcher shop, wasn’t it, Mrs. Kent? End, Side A

CE: Tell me, Florence, in the old hotel there, people come from San Francisco, as you said, to get in the country and to get the country air and the ambiance of the country, possibly the men would hunt. What would the natives of Nicasio do in the way of a diversion?

FK: Well, with us, there were three families that used to go to picnics around: the Dolcini family and the Bolla family and ourselves.

CE: Did you get a horse to rent?

FK: Well, we had our own buggies and wagon, whatever we needed until we got our first car.

CE: Then where would you go on these picnics?

FK: Well, we’d go to the coast, Bodega Bay, or over to Inverness. My dad used to like to get in the water at Inverness because it wasn’t too deep. We’d always take -- My dad always wanted fried chicken and hard boiled eggs. Those two we had to take.

CE: Did he ever indulge in any spirits?

FK: Not to amount to anything. That’s one thing I can say. There weren’t very big drinkers in our family or smokers. Didn’t have any smokers. And we’d go to all picnics, all gatherings. Maybe there would be a, like Camp Taylor. We’d go there on the Fourth of July. That was always --

CE: What can you tell us about Camp Taylor?

FK: Beautiful place.

CE: When you think that that was originally a paper mill back in 1854 through 1888, something like that.

FK: The old mill was still there the last I knew. Yes, they used to have it fenced for out in the open. San Francisco people would come up on the train and be hanging outside there would be so many coming up there. Oh, we’d just have a ball.

CE: Do you remember the old hotel, the Azalea Hotel?

FK: Where was that?

CE: Camp Taylor somewhere. We’ve got pictures of it. I wondered if you had --

FK: No, I guess that was before my time because I don’t ever remember hearing anyone speak of it.

CE: Well, it probably was. Do you remember the trains at all?

FK: Oh, yes.

CE: Tell us a little bit about that. It will be of interest to your grandchildren.

FK: Well, the trains -- I don’t know how often. I think everyday the steam train used to come up and go as far as Duncans Mills, I think it is.

CE: That was narrow gauge.

FK: Yes.

CE: Did you hear it from your house when it chugged along?

FK: No. We probably could hear the whistle or something like that.

CE: Did you ever ride it up to Duncans Mills or Cazadero?

FK: No, I never did, but my dad would take off once in a while. He had friends up there. He would take off and go up for the weekend. I can remember that night and I didn’t know where Duncans Mills was. I couldn’t imagine where he went. But I used to go down on the train to San Rafael when I’d come home weekends. I’d go back --

CE: Oh, now we’re talking about when you went to high school in San Rafael and boarded there, you’d come home weekends.

FK: Yes.

CE: Was that much of a ride, drive?

FK: Well, it was about eleven or twelve miles but going with a horse and buggy. They felt it was easier for me to go down on the train.

CE: Do you remember the route to this extent? I know, you went through a tunnel, didn’t you, at White’s Hill, didn’t you?

FK: Yes.

CE: Was that anywhere near where the Mailliard ranch was? Do you recall that name?

FK: Yes. I’ll tell you about that, too. When we had our ranch up near Cloverdale, my second husband and I. A man came up there to look at it, with a man who was trying to sell the place, and he was looking at it. My husband was talking to the broker and I was talking to this man and his name was Mailliard. And I thought, “Gee, that name is familiar,” and we got talking and I asked him if he was related and he said yes. Then I told him that he was a great friend of my grandfather’s and he brought all these horses to him to shoe them because he was a blacksmith.

CE: Your grandfather?

FK: Yes.

CE: Which Mailliard was this? Do you recall?

FK: I don’t know his first name. It was one of the younger boys. Well, he was a grown man.

CE: Could it have been Ernest?

FK: Well, it could be. I don’t know.

CE: Ernest now is 92 and a half. Of course, the Mailliards had interests all over, didn’t they?

FK: Yes, they had a lot of land.

AK: There was John and Joe.

CE: Well, the train ride would take you, what, about half an hour, 40 minutes?

FK: Oh, possibly.

CE: That was quite a chug up the hill. Wasn’t that a rise?

FK: Not too much; it wasn’t too much.

AK: Not after they had the tunnel.

CE: Not when they had the tunnel. Went through pretty country, didn’t it?

FK: Oh, beautiful. That country going from San Geronimo to San Rafael is beautiful; goes through the trees, you know, the redwoods, beautiful. And Camp Taylor is that same, only it’s more dense. Now it’s a State Park, Camp Taylor.

CE: Yes, of course. Did you ever know the McIsaac family?

FK: Oh, yes.

CE: Codoni?

FK: Yes.

CE: Did you know Nellie McIsaac?

FK: Oh, yes, knew her well. I haven’t seen her for a long time, though.

CE: We went to see her one day and she was in a retirement home in Novato, was it, Anne? And she was so cute. We just went in there cold and talked to her and she said to me, “I haven’t seen you writing one word.” And I said, “This has been turned on.” Oh, my goodness, she just couldn’t get over that. But she said, “You know, I married my next door neighbor. I didn’t get far from home.”

FK: That’s true.

CE: Well, tell me, when did M.C. Tomasini die and you subsequently remarry?

FK: I’m trying to remember the month, but I can’t.

CE: Well, that’s not too important.

FK: 1926. Yes.

CE: Was he retired at that time?

FK: Yes, yes. He came down with tuberculosis and he was in and out of sanitariums for three years, until he was well enough to come home. But he just got too ambitious in doing too much and he started hemorrhaging. I took care of him his last two years.

CE: And then you remarried.

FK: Well, I was a widow for 15 years.

CE: Where were you living, in Petaluma?

FK: Yes, I was in Petaluma then.

CE: Where was your family home located then in Petaluma?

FK: Up on Kentucky Street.

CE: What’s the number, do you recall? It might be of interest to your children.

FK: 318, I believe.

CE: 318 Kentucky.

FK: Still there and they have repainted it.

CE: And how did you meet Mr. Knecht?

FK: At an Odd Fellows dance in Windsor.

CE: I think this is a dancing lady. She went to the Miller Hotel. You love to dance.

FK: I look forward to these. I’ll tell you who used to go with me. Maybe you know some of them. Sheriff Flores’ daughter.

CE: Would go with you?

FK: Yes, we’d go alone. We didn’t go with --

CE: And did you meet Mr. Knecht up here in Petaluma?

FK: No, it was up in Windsor.

CE: Up in Windsor. Let’s see, that’s near Healdsburg, isn’t it?

FK: Yes.

CE: Was he from that area?

FK: Yes, he lived with his mother in Windsor and he belonged to the Odd Fellows.

CE: What is his first name?

FK: Fred.

CE: And we’re talking about, let’s see, 15 years after 1926. That’s 1941 that you married.

FK: That’s when I married.

CE: Now meanwhile, your son, Henry, has grown up and he is eligible to go to World Was II, I presume?

FK: Yes. But he went away to San Francisco to Heald’s Business College. I don’t remember just how long he was there. But anyway, when he got through there, graduated there, they didn’t -- I don’t know if they made any suggestions as to where he could get a job. They’re supposed to look for jobs, you know. But he went out by himself. He said, “I’m not going to wait.” He inquired around in different places and finally decided to go into a bank down there -- won’t say which bank it was because I don’t remember -- and asked to see the manager and they took him in. He was about 18 then. The manager said, “Sit down. What can I do for you?” He said, “I want a job.”

CE: That’s the way to do it.

FK: He looked at him and said, “I like your approach.” So he talked with him and he said, “Well, you’ll be hearing from me.” So he stayed there in San Francisco for a while. Finally they called him. In about a week they called him in and said they were giving him a job. So he stayed there for a short while, training, then they sent him back home to Petaluma.

CE: So he stayed with the bank. That was his career?

FK: Oh, yes, he’s still a banker.

CE: Well, where did he go during World War II? Navy? Army?

FK: Went into the Army. He and four other boys, I think, were the first ones to volunteer from Petaluma, and all went out together.

CE: They all come home safely?

FK: Well, of that group, yes, but there were some other of his friends that didn’t. He was in the Army I think five years. Then he came back and he was at Mather Field for a while and I had my house full every weekend.

CE: Oh, yes. Just as Mrs. Kent entertaining her boys all the time.

FK: I had as many as 17 one weekend. They didn’t care where they slept; they’d bring sleeping bags.

CE: Just to be in a home.

FK: Just to get out in the country.

CE: Well, you have that nature; you’re a giving, loving person.

FK: My husband liked company, too.

CE: Well, tell us a little bit about Fred Knecht.

FK: Well, he was a farmer all his life, raised on a farm. He was born in Santa Rosa.

CE: So he was from this area.

FK: Yes, and he went to school in this area.

CE: And you had not known him, though, until those 15 years after your husband died?

FK: No.

CE: Were you married long before his demise?

FK: Married in 1941 and he passed away two years ago; two and a half years ago.

CE: Well, you were fortunate to have two good men who --

FK: I did have two very good husbands. They were very good to me and we were compatible.

CE: Getting back to Nicasio, Henry, your son, was raised in Petaluma and then went to, as I recall the story, business college and then a stint in the Army and then worked with the bank. This 500-acre ranch, is that a rather recent thing in his life? Or would he take care of that?

FK: No, as far he was concerned. That was the one I said I was going to get the lease, the one that my dad bought and rented out.

CE: I mean, you can’t be a banker and a rancher, too.

FK: Well, he is.

CE: He is, huh?

FK: But then as far as raising the beef cattle, they don’t have too many. It’s mostly the 4-H.

CE: Does he commute from the ranch to Petaluma?

FK: Oh, yes, it’s only about, oh, not more than half an hour.

CE: Oh, that’s nothing. People go an hour --

FK: Oh, from here to San Francisco and further.

CE: So he has really the best of two worlds. He has his commercial life in a relatively small city, although Petaluma is much larger than you remember it, and he has that country atmosphere to raise his children in.

FK: Well, that’s what he wanted. And he said as soon as they were all gone he would sell the ranch and move in around this part of the country, closer to town, but the children won’t let him sell it. The older boy came to me one time and he told me, he said, “Grandma Florence, please don’t let Daddy sell the ranch.” They just love to come there for weekends and they all get together. He’s always -- Of course, now he has his own bank; we call it his own. It’s North Bay Savings and Loan.

CE: Is he one of the founders of that?

FK: Yes, it’s a home owned bank and he just opened this last Saturday. I was up to Healdsburg again to an opening of a branch of his main one up there. The other one got so small they didn’t have room enough for help, so they had to build another one. Oh, it’s beautiful. I wish you could see it.

CE: You must be very proud of him.

FK: Oh, I am, very. He’s building another one over here. The main one is downtown.

CE: In the new part of town or the old part of town?

FK: The old part of town.

CE: What’s the name of it again?

FK: North Bay Savings and Loan. It’s on the main street going out.

CE: Did you know any of the McNears?

FK: Yes.

CE: We had the pleasure of interviewing Lucretia McNear Thomas. Do you know her?

FK: Lucretia! Oh, very well. She was my next door neighbor for a while.

CE: Really, out here?

FK: I’m not going to tell you a joke on her on this.

CE: Why not? You know, I was a little confused. Some of this is clear to Mrs. Kent because she’s lived here over 60 years but there must have been a couple of branches of those McNear boys. Some of them settled, stayed here.

FK: Yes, well, there’s half-brothers. Lucretia’s father and the Mr. McNear, Sr., here were half-brothers. Yes, I located -- I called Denman, called his office, and asked them where she was. I thought she might be around here because she wasn’t up --

CE: Well, you’d better come to Mrs. Kent’s reception; she is coming.

FK: Is she going to be there?

CE: She is going to be there.

FK: Oh, I’d just be tickled to death to see her!

CE: And her nephew, John Erskine McNear Jr., will be there.

FK: That wouldn’t be Lawrence’s --

CE: Could be.

FK: He lived up near Healdsberg for a while. Had a ranch back in the hills and then all of a sudden they moved. She was such a nice lady.

CE: You’ve seen a lot of changes in Petaluma.

FK: Oh, I have, yes.

CE: Were you quite pleased with the lady mayor you had who initiated much of the restricted growth in this area?

FK: Who is that now?

CE: I don’t know her name. I’m sorry. That woman mayor for a while.

FK: Oh, Helen Putnam. Well, I didn’t give it much thought. I think she was wise because it has built up here and now there are stores that are vacant. Too many little stores, you know, and they’re vacant. They go bankrupt in no time. So I think she was right.

CE: How did your family get through the great depression? Did it reflect itself on the ranch?

FK: No, I don’t remember. I went through that myself, you know. If it’s the same one you’re talking about, I went through it and didn’t really realize it.

CE: Do you think people who lived on ranches had a different outlook? They had to milk the cows every day; they had their daily things going on and to have cash in hand wasn’t a daily event. You didn’t handle cash every day to the extent that city people did.

AK: Grew their own food.

FK: No, that’s right. And we weren’t running around. We didn’t have the cars to run around like they do have now, either.

CE: You were going to tell us a little bit ago about your first car, your experience. Would you share that with us?

FK: Well, the first one was a Model T and it was one of these high things. And we went on a picnic one day. My dad was one that always gave everybody else the biggest part of the road.

CE: Oh, it was your father and mother’s car?

FK: Yes, my dad’s car when he was still living. So this day he met somebody and he pulled over too far and the ground gave away and he just tipped over like this in a lot of willows in the creek and we sat there looking at one another. Henry was sitting up in the front with my dad, and my mother and I are in back, you know. And we were there -- my sister -- we were kind of laughing. And all of a sudden I said to Henry, “Get out!” So we all climbed out and the next people that came along got out and they just picked it up and put it back on the road.

CE: Great car. Did you notice any of the conflict that arose with the horses being scared by automobiles? Did you see that?

FK: Oh, yes, yes.

CE: What would they do, just raise up?

FK: Oh, just rear up. It got so that people with horses would sort of slow down and get off the road, you know. If they didn’t honk it would be all right but so many of them would honk their horns and scare the life out of them.

CE: I wonder how long -- Maybe Mrs. Kent can think about this too. I wonder how long that transition period was from the horse and carriage to almost totally automobiles. I guess it was quite a while, particularly in the country, because you always used horses and horse wagon.

FK: Yes, yes. Riding horses.

CE: Dray horses, draft horses.

AK: I just wondered what kind of a car it was.

CE: Model T Ford. Was it with a canvas top?

AK: That’s what I thought.

FK: Yes. Our next one was a Buick.

CE: What year was that about? Let’s see, Buick must have been in the ‘20s?

AK: Not necessarily.

CE: Thirties maybe? Well, she said the Model T and her son Henry was aboard and he was born in 1919. Well, that was quite a jump from a Ford to a Buick. Did your father buy that?

FK: Yes. Yes it was his, his toy. He really liked it.

CE: I bet he never bought anything else, but they -- Those people who were sold on Buicks just thought there was nothing else.

FK: Oh, yes.

CE: Just like you and your Packard, Anne. You know, Mrs. Kent still drives a 1955 Packard that her husband gave her the year he died. When we went out to interview Helen Redding McNeil she drove me out that day. She is a good driver.

FK: Well, she should be, driving that long.

CE: Getting back to you a moment, had you ever thought of teaching? Have you ever thought of a career for yourself?

FK: I was always taken as a teacher. That was the funny part of it. But I didn’t. When I was a widow I did quite a few things.

CE: When you were first widowed you mean?

FK: Yes. I was with Camp Fire for ten years and scouting and I was freelance writer for the Argus Courier here.

CE: A freelance writer?

FK: Yes.

CE: What would you write?

FK: Well, items in the paper about different things that have happened.

CE: Locally here?

FK: Yes, in Nicasio or wherever I happened to be that I think was of interest to people here.

CE: Do you have any of those articles?

FK: No, I don’t think so.

CE: Did you get paid for it?

FK: Let me see how much. I got so much an inch.

CE: So much an inch!

FK: That’s true, that’s true, so much an inch.

CE: That’s like when you do sign painting they charge you so much a letter and you got so much an inch. Did you enjoy it? Did you enjoy writing?

FK: Oh, yes I did, to a degree. We used to -- Lets see, what was it? There was some benefit we were doing. I wrote the article for that. We had someone to come in to instruct us, you know, and she would tell me what to write and I’d write those things all up. Oh, and I used to take my -- I belonged to a sports club, the Spartans.

CE: What do you mean a sports club?

FK: Well, it was a club that the young men and young women belonged. The girls had the auxiliary, women’s auxiliary. They played soccer ball and basketball. My girls always played basketball.

CE: You’ve always been a very active woman.

FK: Yes.

CE: You were a horsewoman for all of your ranch life.

FK: Oh, yes I rode horses. We brought a horse with us when we came to Petaluma, my husband and I.

CE: Where did you put it?

FK: I had it down to the livery stable. There was a livery stable. I’d drive her uptown, drive around, you know, and I’d go into a store and I’d tie her to the hitching post and she was quiet as could be until she saw me coming out the door and then she’d start and whinny and whinny and I’d walk over and as I was untying the rope she’d just lay her head over on me.

CE: What was her name?

FK: Oh.

CE: Did you have a pet name for her? Maybe it’ll come to you.

FK: Babe, I think it was.

CE: Was it a small rig?

FK: Yes, I just had a little buggy. But we had to take her back to the ranch because she didn’t get enough exercise. I didn’t have enough driving for her.

CE: Well, now, you were married in 1922?

FK: No, 1912 the first time.

CE: 1912 the first time. Well you were young. You were young when you got married.

FK: Yes, let’s see, how old was I?

CE: Twelve and eight, you were just twenty?

FK: Yes.

CE: But you had no desire to make a career in your life?

FK: No, not after I got married.

CE: No, but before that?

FK: Then, I thought I’d like to be a teacher.

CE: You thought you would like to be a teacher. And you mentioned Eleanor Gilogly. Before her marriage -- I guess you didn’t know her as Mrs. Murray, I doubt.

FK: Well, she married shortly after I graduated.

AK: She married one of her students.

CE: Married one of her students?

FK: Yes, he’s younger than she is, quite a bit but --

CE: It sounds like Lady Randolph Churchill; married someone as young as Winston, her son.

FK: He was a very nice, tall, handsome fellow.

CE: Did she teach Latin?

FK: She may have. She taught English. I was in her English class.

CE: She is so well regarded. I interviewed the late Judge Jordan Martinelli, and by gosh, she had taught him. Were any of those people in your class, the Martinellis or the Cochranes or some of your high school friends?

FK: In high school, yes. I knew Martha Cochrane very well. Is she in the Islands yet, do you know?

CE: I don’t know. Is that Genevieve Cochrane, Martinelli’s sister you’re talking about?

AK: It might be. Did you know Gen?

CE: She’ll be there Sunday.

FK: I’ll find out then. I’m so pleased to think that Lucretia is going to be there.

CE: Oh, yes. You know she went to the University of California.

FK: Oh did she? Oh, yes, I knew that.

CE: And Mills College.

FK: I knew that, yes. That was after I was married that we were neighbors.

CE: Now you’re Swiss by birth, really, aren’t you? You’re of Swiss descent?

FK: Yes. I always thought I was the League of Nations.

CE: Well, Cornwell sounds like an English name.

FK: Scotch Irish and English on my mother’s side.

CE: And then you married Tomasini, who was also Swiss or Italian Swiss?

FK: Italian Swiss.

CE: And the Knecht is German.

FK: German Swiss.

CE: Oh, so they’re all Swiss.

FK: Yes, they all came from Switzerland.

CE: You know it’s interesting. Mrs. Kent and I have talked to people from all nationalities and we’ve asked them what brought their families to Marin County, whether they be Swiss, French, Italian, German. It seems that Marin is sort of a microcosm of a great part of Europe. And they say, “It looks just like Switzerland,” “It looks just like France.” Have you ever thought of that?

FK: No, I haven’t, but my son Henry and his wife and Henry’s cousin and her husband went to Switzerland this last year.

CE: Did they visit the home place?

FK: Oh, yes. My son was going to look up a distant cousin over there. We’d never seen her. I communicated with her, she in her language and I in English and we’d have it translated. He was going to look her up. So on a Sunday morning they all went to church. It was a quaint old church; he said it was just lovely. Went to church and when they were about to go out a little -- He said a bright little woman came up and put out her hand to shake hands. She introduced herself and it was the cousin he was going to look up, my dad’s cousin, and she invited them out to her place. They went out there and spent quite a bit of time with them and she was always talking to Henry. And his cousin’s husband was translating because he could speak the language. She wanted to know all about us out here and she showed where my dad lived when he was a boy before he came out here.

CE: Oh, that must have been touching. Did Henry take photographs of all of this?

FK: I think he has got them. Yes, I’m sure he has. I saw them. Oh, he said, “I would go right back to Switzerland if I can but I can’t.”

CE: You mean he was so impressed with it?

FK: Oh, I’ve never seen him come home so happy over any trip that they’ve made as he was over the Switzerland one. He was just delighted.

CE: Well, they say the air is divine, and there isn’t a piece of paper on the road.

FK: And then they went to some cemeteries that the cousin told them to, old cemeteries. One of them was all Tomasini and Filipini, and all of those folks and then the other one had so many names similar to the ones that are here that have come here. He said it was very, very interesting.

CE: Well, at the time of that great immigration to America from Europe -- There were several periods, as I understand -- There was quite a period in the 1830s, 1850s, and I don’t know when your forbearers came here but there certainly are a lot of Swiss in Marin and Sonoma, too, I presume. It’s been a delightful visit with you and I’d like you to think a moment and conclude this with your impressions of Nicasio and its influence upon your life, and what it has done to you and what you’ve been able to transmit to your children.

FK: I can say that I have never regretted living in Nicasio. In fact, I enjoyed it immensely with all our parties and dances and get-togethers. And I am glad to know that my grandchildren and my great-grandchildren are also enjoying the same.

CE: That’s right, they go out to Henry’s.

FK: Oh, yes, they do. And I’m always ready to go back home, as I call it, at any time to be with Henry and Eloise and the family.

CE: Well, they certainly have a rich heritage in -- Henry does, and his mother, which is you. I want to thank you so much for your graciousness this afternoon in sharing some of your reminiscences with us.

FK: I enjoyed it very much myself.

CE: Thank you.